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Isaiah VI
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(Date Posted:09/25/2004 11:20:55)
I am very careful as I write this cautioned by the Holy Spirit that this indeed a serious subject...however I MUST respond..simply because in our zeal to emphasize the rules we often mask the LOVE of Christ...so we must have balance...I agree and have read that book by Mary K. Baxter called "A divine revelation of Hell"..once saved always saved is lie in the sense that if you continue in sin....I encourage everyone who posted to read the book of JUDE... its one chapter and its right before revelations....which I dont believe is any accident.....NOW...HERE is where I take issue...watch the spirit in which you walk in...or encourage to manifest....example...sacrifice without obedience is fruitless...and this is true...but OBEDIENCE without MERCY is religion..bottom line...see Yeshua...written in JOSEA chapter 6 and quoted again in the new testament as he outlined the primary issue matthew 9:13
over and Our God has delivered us from nonsense starting with Jesus... begining at the Curse when man was first punished.... God has punished but has shown... MERCY in providing regulations to live by....... study from the begining although man was sent out from the Garden God provided Clothing.....although Deuteronomy is full of rules.. the rules are tainted with mercy...even the seat between the cherubim on the ark of the covenant is called the MERCY SEAT...God is Good JESUS is worthy...YES PREACH...YES warn them but learn the lesson of JONAH...who did not want to preach at NINEVAH because of thier extreme wickedness..but learn the lesson of MERCY..and your post although technically accurate in rules and good doctrine... lacks the very thing that called us out of the darkness in the first place...and thats HIS kind of love...I love the LORD for He did hear my cry...look lets do our jobs and convey HIS spirit...not more division....here we go...watch this folks...HOLY HIP HOP DIVIDED...not only do we now have to fight for shelf space in the record stores but now we gotta have dividers...pentecostal rap..baptist rap...etc etc...which MASKS the true CHRIST...DO not rely strictly on the teaching of man...certain things can only be gotten SPIRIT to SPIRIT.so for those who disagree I encourage you to go AND SEEK HIS FACE go pray....and I bet you come up with a new understanding.....cause if it had not been for the LORD...who was on my side......Good God almighty...
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Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke,to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke? ISAIAH 58
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holyhouse
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62# |
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(Date Posted:09/25/2004 15:18:18)
HERESY!
I've heard just about enough 4 Sight.
In 2 posts you managed to call God unfair, incorrectly link scripture together, imply that we humans are just robots (so it doesn't matter what we do), and just flat out CHANGE what the bible says.
You have gone too far.
You are playing with God's word and God's people.
You are ridiculously fooled by satan and the men he has employed to lie to you and now you are putting God's people in danger with this latest nonsense you've posted.
John 15:6 means exactly what it says. "6 If a man abide mot in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
Does that sound like eternal security to you? It sounds like HELL to me. How can you blatantly change scripture like that? NOWHERE does it say that you will "just lose your fellowship with God". Group that with all the other non-scriptural inferences you've been taught to believe.
4 sight said:
The "casting forth" is done by the Husbandman, and evidently had in view the stripping of the believer of the gifts and opportunities which he failed to improve. It is similar to the salt "losing its savor"
EVIDENTLY NOTHING! THE ONLY THING THAT IS EVIDENT IS THAT YOU ARE SERIOUSLY CONFUSED. WHAT THE HUSBANDMAN(GOD THE FATHER) "HAD IN VIEW" IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS...NOTHING ELSE! IT SAYS "AND CAST THEM INTO THE FIRE, AND THEY ARE BURNED"...
NOT JUST STRIPPING HIM OF GIFTS AND OPPORTUNITIES...BURNED! BEING CAST INTO THE FIRE AND BURNED IS NOTHING LIKE SALT LOSING ITS SAVOR. ONLY SATAN COULD CONVINCE SOMEONE TO BELEIEVE SOME NONSENSE LIKE THAT.
4 sight said:
But what is meant by, "Men gather them, and cast into the fire, and they are burned"? Observe, first, the plural pronouns.
What? Observe this: You don't need to know all about plural pronouns to see the truth in the Bible. You DO need all that and much more to come up with eternal security.
4 sight said:
The "them" and the "they" are what issues from the one who has been cast forth "as a branch." And what is it that issues from such a one?what but dead works: "wood, hay, stubble"! and what is to become of his "dead works." 1 Corinthians 3:15 tells us: "If any man?s work shall be burned (the very word used in John 15:6!), he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
RUBBISH!
THE "THEM" AND "THEY" ARE THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE CAST INTO THE FIRE. PERIOD. SATAN WOULD LOVE FOR SOMEONE TO BELIEVE THAT THEY WON'T BE BURNED...JUST THEIR WORKS. NOT SO. 1 CORINTHIANS 3:15 IS A DIFFERENT SCRIPTURE THAN JOHN 15:6. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME AND THEY DO NOT HAVE THE SAME MEANING. ONE SAYS THAT YOU MAY STILL BE SAVED BUT ALL WORKS NOT DONE FOR CHRIST WILL BE BURNED UP...THE OTHER SAYS THAT IF YOU DO NOT ABIDE IN HIM THEN YOU YOURSELF WILL BE BURNED. YOU ARE INCORRECTLY LINKING SCRIPTURES TOGETHER TO PROVE A LIE AT THE EXPENSE OF GOD'S PEOPLE AND YOU NEED TO STOP NOW.
4 sight said:
Here then is a most solemn warning and heart-searching prospect for every Christian. Either your life and my life is, as the result of continuous fellowship with Christ, bringing forth fruit to the glory of the Father, fruit which will remain; or, because of neglect of communion with Him, we are in immense danger of being set aside as His witnesses on earth, to bring forth only that which the fire will consume in a coming Day. May the Holy Spirit apply the words of the Lord Jesus to each conscience and heart.
Written by Arthur Pink
That whole paragraph is one man's theory! And one CONFUSED man at that. Quote the Bible...Not Arthur Pink. See that's the problem...You've sat under all this "theology" and it has filled your spirit. Arthur Pink and anything else un-biblical IS suspect. Man-made garbage. Here's a "solemn warning" for you: 2 Timothy 4
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
4 sight said:
What's fair Tim? Must I trace this for you? Man sins. God foretold him that if you sin, you die...not just physically but spiritually. WE (all men) are in Adam. Why? Because man's seed is tainted....unfair, right? Well, sin entered the world by one man and redemption is secured by one sacrifice - Jesus Christ...is that fair? I don't think so.
WHOA! YOU JUST CALED GOD UNFAIR TWICE! DON'T EVEN TRY TO JUSTIFY IT OR SAY THAT YOU DIDN'T MEAN EXACTLY THAT. THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID AND THAT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE READ. I DON'T CARE HOW DEEP YOU THINK YOU ARE...THOSE STATEMENTS ARE HARMFUL. AND UNGODLY. YOU'D BETTER CHECK YOURSELF RIGHT NOW.
I THINK IT'S TIME TO WIND THIS TOPIC UP SOON, BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN GODLY WISDOM AND SOUND BIBLICAL ADVICE ON ALL POINTS, BUT YOU'VE REJECTED IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN FAVOR OF MEN LIKE ARTHUR PINK AND CALVIN'S THEOLOGY.
MY INTENT WAS AND STILL IS TO FIND OUT WHICH HHH ARTIST DO OR DO NOT SUPPORT THIS HERETICAL VIEW, IN THE HOPES THAT SOULS MAY BE SAVED AND NOT MISLED THROUGH THIS MUSIC. YOUR RESPONSES HAVE ANSWERD MY QUESTION THAT THERE ARE IN FACT THOSE IN THE INDUSTRY SUPPORTING FALSE DOCTRINE, PUTTING LISTENERS AT RISK OF HELL. I URGE ALL READERS TO FIND A BIBLE BELIEVING, FULL-GOSPEL CHURCH TO BE A PART OF, SO THAT YOU MAY BE FED SOUND DOCTRINE.
AS FOR THE REST OF YOUR COMMENTS, I'LL GIVE YOU BIBLICAL ADVICE THIS TIME BUT, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO REFRAIN FROM SPREADING YOUR LIES AND FALSE GOSPEL ON THIS BOARD ANY FURTHER.
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
4 sight said:
No man can save himself, as you imply by his means of making a choice.
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Adam had a choice. Man has a choice. Through Jesus Christ we can have power to overcome the enemy. You can CHOOSE to follow Him or CHOOSE not to follow Him. Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
We are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus...Not to be saved. We are not robots. There is temptation and distractions to the saints of God that can and will lead them to HELL if followed through. All that stuff about the wind? Comparing yourself to the wind and comparing yourself to God? You need to stop.
4 sight said:
"The wind bloweth where it pleaseth... so is every one that is born of the Spirit." The wind is irresponsible: that is to say, it is sovereign in its action. The wind is an element altogether beyond man?s control. The wind neither consults man?s pleasure, nor can it be regulated by his devices. So it is with the Spirit. The wind blows where it pleases, when it pleases, as it pleases. So it is with the Spirit.
So I guess you bloweth where you listeth too right? Meaning you can do whatever your mind feels compelled to do at the time...You're being controlled, right. Wrong. We are free moral agents. You'd better bring ALL your thoughts and actions under the subjection of the Holy Spirit if you know what's good for you.
2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
4 sight said:
Again; the wind is irresistible. When the wind blows in the fulness of its power it sweeps everything before it. Those who have looked upon the effects of a tornado just after it has passed, know something of the mighty force of the wind. It is so with the Spirit. When He comes in the fulness of His power, He breaks down man?s prejudices, subdues his rebellious will, overcomes all opposition.
I know exactly where you are going with this trash.
You just do whatever you wanna do but you claim to be a Christian so you can use your "powers" whenver you need them. It doesn't work like that. If you want ANY power from God you have to be living right. You are not a tornado.
4 sight said:
Again; the wind is irregular. Sometimes the wind moves so softly it scarcely rustles a leaf, at other times it blows so loudly that its roar can be heard miles away. So it is in the matter of the new birth. With some the Holy Spirit works so gently His work is imperceptible to onlookers; with others His action is so powerful, so radical, revolutionary, His operations are patent to many. Sometimes the wind is only local in its reach, at other times it is widespread in its scope. So it is with the Spirit. Today He acts on one or two souls, tomorrow, He may?as at Pentecost?"prick in the heart" a whole multitude. But whether He works on few or many He consults not man; He acts as He pleases.
You are implying that your faithfulness can be "irregular" too and you can act as YOU please. There is NO Holy Spirit working in those who've adopted this false teaching. Verily, He's working on you and them to woo you away from that mess you're caught up in.
4 sight said:
Again; the wind is invisible. It is one of the very few things in nature that is invisible. We can see the rain, the snow, the lightning?s flash; but not so the wind. The analogy holds good with the Spirit. His Person is unseen.
Again; the wind is inscrutable. There is something about the wind which defies all effort of human explanation. Its origin, its nature, its activities, are beyond man?s ken. Man cannot tell whence it cometh or whither it goeth. It is so with the activities of the Holy Spirit. His operations are conducted secretly; His workings are profoundly mysterious.
So I guess you think you can be slick and mysterious too. Represent Christ somedays and live like the devil on others....but always profess to be a Christian. The Lord is gonna run over you.
4 sight said:
Finally, the wind is invigorating. The life-giving properties of the wind are illustrated every time a physician orders his sick patient to retire to the mountains or to the seaside. It is so, again, with the Spirit. He is the One who strengthens with might in the inner man. He is the One who energizes, revives, empowers. How marvelously full was the figure employed by Christ on this occasion. How much is suggested by this single word "wind." Let the above serve as an example of the great importance and value of prolonged meditation upon every word of Holy Writ.
Yes, the holy spirit can empower men to do great things, but you won't be reviving anyone through the spirit if you don't have Him. You need to be born again.
4 sight said:
God has thrown an impenetrable veil over the beginnings and processes of life. That we live we know, but how we live we cannot tell. Life is evident to the consciousness and manifest to the senses, but it is profoundly mysterious in its operations. It is so with the new life born of the Spirit. To sum up the teaching of this verse: "The wind bloweth"?there is the fact. "And thou hearest the sound thereof"?there is evidence of the fact. "But knowest not whence"?there is the mystery behind the fact. The one born again knows that he has a new life, and enjoys the evidences of it, but how the Holy Spirit operates upon the soul, subdues the will, creates the new life within us, belongs to the deep things of God.
I've never heard so much rubbish in my life. Life is NOT mysterious. I've never had a clearer picture of life since I got saved. Life in the Spirit is clear and gets clearer...not mysterious.
Romans 1: 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
And to think...all that mess you believed and POSTED was
Wirtten by Arthur Pink
It's time to be real for God. Give Him your life, completely.
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godsoulja7
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63# |
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(Date Posted:09/26/2004 17:49:42)
I know that was tha Holy Spirit right there, speaking through Holyhouse !!!
Hallelujah !!! All Praise and Glory to tha most High GOD !!! The one and only !!! The LORD CHRIST JESUS !!! Amen !!!
JESUS is LORD of lord's and KING of king's !!!
JESUS love us all !!! Lets love him back !!!
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YOU CAN BE ANALITICAL,---------------
OR STRICTLY METAFORICAL,
OR BE BOTH...
AND STILL SPREAD THA GOSPEL,
May the grace of our LORD,
THE CHRIST, AND SAVIOR JESUS,
BE WITH YOU.
Out Peace!
G-O-D Soulja7_____________________________
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4sightsounds
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64# |
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06/27/2004
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(Date Posted:09/26/2004 18:39:58)
....OK, have it your way, guys.
You are more powerful than God, therefore you can walk away at any time from Christ. Even though He is supposedly in you and you're supposedly in him, you have the ability to walk away from it. Even though salvation and probation are 2 different things, you have the power to walk away from him. Even though Jesus Christ says himself that he loses none of his, you have the power to lose yourself, so to speak. Even though ANY man that is saved did not contribute one thing to his salvation, he now EARNS his salvation. Even though the Holy Spirit inspired countless passages to deal with those that choose to trample on the ressurection of Christ by reverting back to earning it, you continue to believe that your works, good behavior, or beating the buzzer by repenting before you take your last breath is going to save you. Even though it is impossible for someone to be un-born after being born of the Holy Spirit, you have the power to become an orphan.....
Did anyone take the time to address the issue regarding the EVIDENCE of being saved vs. our good works saving us?
If you want to try and earn your way in, have at it.....but there's no relationship in that. Do you earn your way into your natural family?
Tim, there's nothing desparate about anything I've posted...I have nothing to lose. I'm sealed til the day of redemption....how about you? I just don't have the time to type up book reports to navigate through the error posted in this thread, just for it to be written off.
Peace people...this has been interesting. Legalism does not come from the Holy Spirit, but another spirit.
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Music production at www.4sightsounds.com
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Tim Flemm
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(Date Posted:09/27/2004 20:35:46)
Godsouljah, Holyhouse, did you hear anyone say you have to EARN your way into Heaven??? Cause I didn't hear any of us post that. According to what I've been saying this whole time, you can't earn Heaven by works, but OBEDIENCE is greater than sacrifice. God simply asked us to submit to him and his spirit, and (Rom 6) don't submit our "members" to sin or sin will become our master. I said we have the choice to submit.
And, as far as God being all powerful... God could eliminate sin by sending another flood and killing us all. But, his power extends only so far. See, God can make the winds and waves of a stormy sea cease and behave quietly, BUT he WON'T try to FORCE a man into obedience. And, you must remember, OBEYING GOD IS REALLY LOVING GOD- 1 John 5:3 ("For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."). Obedience is our choice, not God's coercion. Galatians 5- "Walk in the spirit and you won't fulfill the lust (desires) of the flesh." You choose what direction you're going to walk in, not God. You're not a robot. You're a free-will agent, free to choose the plan of God for your life or try to create your own path (which leads to destruction).
And, works... Works will follow an obedient heart. That's why the scripture says "Grieve not the Holy Spirit" because in order for the "works" to appear in your life you must not disobey the Holy Ghost. He leads you into the works. But, you must hear and choose to obey his voice. Paul told "Christians" not to grieve the Holy Ghost, meaning- stop disobeying him and causing him grief and heartache.
That's what I've been saying. Don't write words I (or anybody else) never said.
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godsoulja7
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66# |
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(Date Posted:09/28/2004 09:47:22)
well i don't know who Godsouljah is but i know that G-O-D Soulja7 didn't say that !!! I know that tha only way is JESUS ! there is no other ! however, altough he is tha way, he doesn't make u follow him, with a force! he draws u to follow him with his love !!! I never said that u earn salvation! u know the reason why he says that he won't lose those that r his, is because if they are his, they won't walk away. his sheep know his voice! those that r his shall hold on to him and his love and shall love him. we r his children. for example ! lets say there was a baby ! and this baby knew its mothers voice and everything, and always had to have its mother in sight ! as soon as the baby leaves it crys, and it well run, walk, crawl, or what ever it can to find its mother ! the mother does not leave tha child alone, jus so it could cry ! the mother is only doing something for tha child, like getting a bottle or a diapher ! the mother may b preparing food for tha lil baby, yet the baby doesn't know ! we should be as the baby, that will cry to our heavenly father when he is not seen that he may show us and come and take us to what he has for us ! If a child truely loves and is attached to its mother it will not leave in tha other derection, that was tha point i was tryn to make ! a baby will wait and cry or cry and follow. Not go and do whatever !
much love in tha name of tha LORD CHRIST JESUS 2 ya'll
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YOU CAN BE ANALITICAL,---------------
OR STRICTLY METAFORICAL,
OR BE BOTH...
AND STILL SPREAD THA GOSPEL,
May the grace of our LORD,
THE CHRIST, AND SAVIOR JESUS,
BE WITH YOU.
Out Peace!
G-O-D Soulja7_____________________________
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